Another new psychic show – The Last Goodbye

In “TV is rubbish” news, I’m afraid there is yet another series promoting a “grief vampire”.

In each episode of “The Last Goodbye,” viewers will follow Rebecca as she looks to bring people together with the spirits of those they’ve lost to help resolve the questions that death has left behind. Loved ones, who never had the chance to ask a last question or express an unspoken thought to a late family member or friend, are given the opportunity to communicate through Rebecca.

Source: New Series “The Last Goodbye”

This show along with several other vapid paranormal series are on LMN or Lifetime Movie Network. They specialize in “television for women”. Great. Just what women need – mindless superstitious nonsense.

As we always clarify, there would be nothing wrong with programming like this for entertainment but it’s never presented that way. Such programming is meant to be seen as real and the viewer is encouraged to buy into the stories and believe them, even though they are not based on evidence but on dramatic recreations and edited segments.

If Rebecca Rosen claims to talk to the dead, she should agree to be tested and exhibit this extraordinary ability without helpful editing.

  37 comments for “Another new psychic show – The Last Goodbye

  1. Ronald H. Pine
    August 17, 2015 at 6:44 PM

    Well I think that this is great news. They should try to get in touch with as many people as possible who were killed in unsolved murders and ask them to identify or describe their murderers.

  2. August 17, 2015 at 8:20 PM

    This is just another despicable exploitation of people who are grieving! I really cannot understand how someone can do that to others – yes, I know money is a motivation, and perhaps the only motivation, but it’s just so rotten what some people will do to get it.

    Completely and utterly disgusting.

  3. BobM
    August 17, 2015 at 9:39 PM

    I have significant moral objections to this sort of thing being described as entertainment. It just gives them another protection from fraud prosecutions. In New Zealand the law says that you commit a crime if you ‘intend to deceive’ in this sort of area, which is difficult enough to prove on its own, without the added get out clause of ‘this is for entertainment only – nudge, nudge wink’ wink.’

  4. August 18, 2015 at 12:54 AM

    They need to do something like that here. People who tend to put stock in this stuff don’t really see it as “entertainment”, they see it as the absolute truth. You’re right – it’s fraud, pure and simple!

  5. One Eyed Jack
    August 18, 2015 at 6:16 PM

    If Rebecca Rosen claims to talk to the dead, she should agree to be tested and exhibit this extraordinary ability without helpful editing.

    John Edwards tried this once (a show with minimal editing) and it was appalling. The number of actual “hits” as he rapidly fired off questions was abysmally low. TV editing makes it look like the charlatans are hitting on every point, but it truth, they are running through multiple question and hitting on 1 in 20.

    People want to be believe. That will never change, so there will always be people ready to cash in on it.

  6. Jeff
    August 18, 2015 at 8:29 PM

    Rebecca is a little late to the party. Unfortunately, too many people seek out these parasites.

  7. Bill T.
    August 19, 2015 at 2:25 PM

    It’s cheap, it’s easy and folks will watch, of course they’ll air it.

  8. Tony
    August 19, 2015 at 4:32 PM

    To paraphrase “The Sixth Sense,” I see dead Nielsen ratings.

  9. August 22, 2015 at 6:22 AM

    This A good show. i believe every program have some positive as well as some negative influence on its viewers.its up to the person how he or she can perceive the things. but its the moral responsibility of every individual to keep all these expects in mind while working on these kind of projects.

  10. August 22, 2015 at 8:50 AM

    The living can not communicate with the dead. Anyone who claims to do so is not being exactly moral even if they truly believe it. If the best knowledge we have, after over a hundred years, says that this is NOT real spirit communication, it is something else, then psychic should heed this. And networks should stop exploiting it to audiences who don’t know better.

  11. MsLette
    August 25, 2015 at 11:55 PM

    Idoubtit, I don’t agree with your comment. I have seen and heard spirits since I was 6 years old. Contact from the dead is most definitely real. Often times I am visited by those as they are leaving. Because of that and my own experiences, I DO agree that this woman is a complete and utter joke. If we got answers from the dead like she does, we’d have the answers to anything and everything…she’s insulting. It just doesn’t work that way. Unlike this woman, I wouldn’t dare run from house to house volunteering to communicate with the departed. That’s a real invitation for trouble. What appalls me the most (admittedly, I’ve only seen three segments) is how she presents all the departed as being happy, loving people who never suffered while passing. Just like living people can be jerks, that doesn’t change just because you die. Contrary to what they present on television, I don’t particularly enjoy being contacted by the other side, whether it’s to comfort someone or not.

  12. Phyliss
    August 26, 2015 at 12:09 AM

    Yes if these so called mediums are all frauds they should be stopped from taking these frieving peoples money .I dont know if certain people can talk to the dead. its possible, and if they truly can they should help solve some of the unsolved murders, I think it should be unedited on the tv show .. I feel if there are people out there that can truly talk to the dead they would be truly caring people that would only want to help grieving people not to hurt them

  13. August 26, 2015 at 8:23 AM

    They CAN’T talk to the dead. It’s been tested for a century. No evidence. If it was unedited it would make a poor show. That’s what is ultimately so sad – people are fooling into thinking they are real by media hype.

  14. August 26, 2015 at 8:25 AM

    We can’t use your personal experiences as evidence. There are other explanations than that spirits are contacting you. No one has ever shown that they can talk to the dead. They tell STORIES that they do and I’m sure they believe that’s what’s going on. But objectively, it’s NOT what is going on.

    But thank you for your opinion on the concept of this show from another point of view.

  15. insomuch
    August 26, 2015 at 9:23 PM

    There are some experiences in this life that cannot be explained through conventional science- this reality does not discredit nor does it validate people’s claims to “speak with the dead.” However the history of humans does show the capacity to exploit the grieving for monetary gain. Metaphysics and quantum physics may someday reconcile their differences but today we must trust our convictions and guard ourselves from charlatans and frauds. I say keep it simple, let data speak for itself and leave the mongering for mongers.

  16. August 26, 2015 at 9:27 PM

    Metaphysics and quantum physics has nothing to do with the reality of psychic powers. I don’t see physicists noting such distortions from psychic powers in their experiments.

    The data has spoken. A hundred years of seriously studying mediumship (and still going) and we have no better data than before.

  17. August 27, 2015 at 8:05 AM

    I’m not clear at all what it means that “experiences in this life that cannot be explained through conventional science”. We are all humans and part of nature. Science describes nature. To suggest otherwise is suggest supernatural and I’m not inclined to go down that philosophical road.

  18. carlene
    August 31, 2015 at 12:09 AM

    Your comment is so well stated. I do believe in spirits, I do believe they can communicate with us …Directly! No medium needed. Spirits do so through signs, thoughts and dreams. We just need to understand how the interpretation is done.

  19. Chris
    September 17, 2015 at 12:51 AM

    Do you ever take aspirin? 4 out of 5 doctors recommend. That is based on testimony but not science. Personal experiences are used in all factors of life. Look at media today.

    You state, “There are other explanations than that spirits are contacting you.” Well then, please explain what those explanations are.

    “But objectively, it’s NOT what is going on.” and you know this how? Once again, you are giving statements not supported by any facts. You have no right to present an opinion as fact on anything unless it is “based on facts?”

    Fact: People are still having experiences and have been for thousands of years. All religions and cultures have written or spoken about spirit communication, ghosts, or encounters with the afterlife.

  20. chris
    September 17, 2015 at 1:03 AM

    “quantum physics has nothing to do with the reality of psychic powers”

    Well that depends. As we know, there are no super heroes as there are no psychic powers.

    But, ESP. Extra Sensory Perception and the sixth sense! well, how does that work? Quantum Physics IS proving that through the study of particles that all things are connected. Alain Aspect. The Bell theory. Spooky distance, entanglement and it goes on and on. All particles are connected. Law of observation – conscious thought from the observer affects the particles. Just about everyone has had someone pop into their head and then run into them or heard from them moments later or felt someone staring at them and then turned to see a complete stranger peering right at them.

    Dreams that come true and an intuition that warns you of danger or of opportunity. This my dear, is being validated through the understanding of how the universe works and that particles do communicate over great distances.

    “The data has spoken. A hundred years of seriously studying mediumship (and still going) and we have no better data than before.”

    Once again, an opinion of yours NOT a fact. Nothing to support this claim.

  21. chris
    September 17, 2015 at 1:17 AM

    “We are all humans and part of nature. Science describes nature. To suggest otherwise is suggest supernatural and I’m not inclined to go down that philosophical road.”

    I actually partially agree with you here, but let me expand. Everything is a part of nature, yet science has not fully understood nature yet. The supernatural is nothing more than a world yet to be understood by science. Science is all based on tests (that we are able to measure- we don’t have measurements for that which we don’t understand) and theories. If you have theory you have to find a way to test it and create the test.

    Science is still learning. Physics states there are many dimensions even the possibility of alternate realities. With that belief, the fun shall begin where we discover not only who we truly are, the reality of consciousness, but also where we go afterlife.

    Ghosts, spirits, the afterlife is all apart of a nature that we don’t fully understand with our current science. Like any other great discovery, one day we will catch up and validate something that all along others before us were trying to tell us. No different then Louis Pasteur who in the 1800’s everyone thought was crazy as he raved about these invisible creatures (organisms) all round us making us sick and causing us to die that no one could see. Yes, they thought he was crazy. Thank god for him he became the father of the germ theory. He is remembered for his remarkable breakthroughs in the causes and preventions of diseases, and his discoveries have saved countless lives ever since.

    The resources out there support a more open mind, and that there is research in all areas of understanding whether it be life after death or the existence of conscious and connective energy.

    So I ask again, What is your motive to prove or disprove? what is your authority to state the opinions you make and On what authority do you make your claims?

    Thank you for listening.

  22. September 17, 2015 at 7:01 AM

    5 long comments is too many, Chris. I’m sorry I don’t have time to answer all your questions and statements. If you read the rest of the site you can deduce the answers to some of them. I assert there is no evidence that supports communication with life after death or the afterlife in general. That’s not my opinion, that’s a conclusion by many based on the body of evidence.

  23. September 18, 2015 at 7:50 PM

    Oh wow, you are out of touch with reality. Are you THE Chris Fleming or just an impersonator?

  24. September 18, 2015 at 8:00 PM

    Aspirin is testimony? Arguments from antiquity and authority? REALLY? I find your arguments hollow and very naive.

    I used to buy into paranormalism. I asked questions. The evidence is not there. I find it patronizing that you assume I am some naysayer that doesn’t know what I’m talking about.

    Please read our About page with regards to commenting and this site. http://doubtfulnews.com/about-doubtful-news/

    Skepticism is not my “schtick”, it’s how we get to the best answer and not be fooled.

  25. Kenny Biddle
    September 18, 2015 at 9:08 PM

    “The supernatural is nothing more than a world yet to be understood by science.” – You make this statement with an obvious solidified belief in this alleged other world. This is exactly the opposite of how science operates…you’ve started with a conclusion and seem to be cherry picking terms and snippets of quotes to support the conclusion. Please don’t pretend to understand physics…something better left to actual physicists.

    “Science is all based on tests (that we are able to measure- we don’t have measurements for that which we don’t understand) and theories”. – Science is based on observation, research, controlled experiments, data analysis, peer review, multiple independent replication, more review, refinement of accepted hypotheses with new information, and so on – much more than just tests and theories.

    “If you have theory you have to find a way to test it and create the test.” A theory (Scientific Theory) summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing; an accepted hypothesis. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. If evidence accumulates in support of a hypothesis, then the hypothesis will become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. They are concise (i.e., generally don’t have a long list of exceptions and special rules), coherent, systematic, predictive, and broadly applicable.


    I’m thinking that you meant to say hypothesis, rather than theory. An educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis is a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts. These reasoned explanations are not guesses — of the wild or educated variety. When scientists formulate new hypotheses, they are usually based on prior experience, scientific background knowledge, preliminary observations, and logic.

    Do you realize that Sharon is an actual scientist, not just someone that’s pretending to be?

    “Physics states there are many dimensions even the possibility of alternate realities. With that belief, the fun shall begin where we discover not only who we truly are, the reality of consciousness, but also where we go afterlife.” Once again, you’re cherry picking bits of ideas and hypotheses and transforming them into “beliefs” in which you further assert to be fact….a fallacy in logic.

    “Ghosts, spirits, the afterlife is all apart of a nature that we don’t fully understand with our current science.” – This statement is nothing more than pure speculation…absolutely nothing more. Your opinion or belief in it does not make it true, a fact, or proven by science.

    “No different then Louis Pasteur…” – Well, yes it is different. But let’s clarify the history a bit better than your statement above. “On constructing his first simple microscope in 1677, Antoni van Leeuwenhoek was surprised to see tiny organisms – which he called ‘animalcules’ – in the droplets of water he was examining. He made no connection with disease, and although later scientists observed germs in the blood of people suffering from disease, they suggested that the germs were an effect of the disease, rather than the cause. This fitted with the then popular theory of spontaneous generation.

    The observations and actions of Ignaz Semmelweis, Joseph Lister and John Snow would retrospectively be acknowledged as contributing to the acceptance of germ theory. But it was the laboratory researches of Louis Pasteur in the 1860s and then Robert Koch in the following decades that provided the scientific proof for germ theory. Their work opened the door to research into the identification of disease-causing germs and potential life-saving treatments.” – Source: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/techniques/germtheory.aspx

    So yeah, a bit different, since Louis Pasteur used science to further the work before him. Psychics and mediums avoid scientific testing…for good reason. None have been able to produce result under controlled conditions and qualified observers. But hey, if we’re going to start throwing Red Herrings into the mix, how about we talk about French physicist Prosper-René Blondlot in 1903, who hypothesized about N-rays he swore were real, yet were non-existent (Refuted by good science). Or how about Harold Camping and his predictions that Judgment Day would come on May 21, 2012 with earthquakes around the globe and a rapture of the faithful. Then mass suffering until the end of the world on Oct. 21.

    “The resources out there support a more open mind, and that there is research in all areas of understanding whether it be life after death or the existence of conscious and connective energy.” – I agree that the resources are out there for a more open mind, but you seem to be ignoring those resources. Rather, you’re only making use of those that go along with your beliefs = Confirmation Bias. Your process of starting with a conclusion and working backwards, which you’ve thoroughly demonstrated here, as ell as other times I’ve met you (if this is the real Chris Fleming), is a prime example of closed mind. Oh, and the term “connective energy” has no legitimate meaning in science. That would be New Age nonsense at it’s best.

    “What is your motive to prove or disprove? what is your authority to state the opinions you make and On what authority do you make your claims?” – I can’t speak for Sharon, but I think she may share my opinion on this. My motive is that it’s completely deceitful for someone to pretend to speak with another person’s deceased loved ones. Psychics profit off the grief of others by providing a con. You are not offering burial services, you are not offering grief counseling, you are not helping anyone. Psychics take money from grieving people under the false assumption they have some magical power. It’s bullshit, and such people are no better then snake oil salesmen, faith healers, and identity thieves. My motive is to help educate the general public about cold reading techniques of psychics, the reluctance of psychic to be tested under controlled conditions.

    But what on authority do you state your opinions and claims? I’ve yet to come across any scientific validation of your claims. If this is the Chris Fleming that claims to be a medium, then I challenge your claim. Present extraordinary evidence to support your claim. I hear Randi still has that Challenge going…

  26. Chris
    September 18, 2015 at 10:45 PM

    If we are to move onto the term “reality” then we would need to discuss what is consciousness and how is it affected by ones perception? Our perception of what reality is, may differ, therefore altering our view on reality.

    Some now ask is our perception of everything around us, in what we call third dimension, actually Reality? See I personally believe, yet I “cannot prove” that everything around us is made up by consciousness for us to have a physical existence (experience). Our soul, our spirit, here in this physical body on a place we call earth, temporarily to feel varying emotions and exist in time and space. Vibrating in what we call the third dimension. Our body dies, but who we are does not. Our conscious energy lives on and goes to another dimension or plane of existence.

    I find it fascinating that physicists are looking into what is called “the holographic principle” and theorizing that we live in a giant hologram. What if they are right? Then what. While it does not prove that there is life after death, it begs to question if the universe is a hologram then what happens to us and why are we in a hologram?

    Is The Universe A Hologram? Physicists Say It’s Possible – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/universe-hologram-physicists_n_4428359.html

    You are a geologist, Correct? I heard once, but cannot support with any firm evidence at my disposal, that rocks are not actually hollow but filled with particles floating around at speeds undetectable by the human eye. And our perception is this mass we call a rock, is actually not solid at all. Is there truth to this?

    What if our consciousness, which some of us tend to call spirits, ghosts, etc had collectively created this universe to go to and exist temporarily in a seemingly solid form, but when our flesh (particles break down) our body dies, we exit and go back to our true energetic form?

    The behavior physicists are discovering that particles react to observation (thoughts and consciousness) and after separation are still connected to each other in subatomic levels tells us that we are all connected to the building blocks of the universe. What is it that can access that connection? Is it consciousness?

    matter does not exist: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_fisica45.htm

    And yes Sharon, I am Chris Fleming. Thank you for asking.

  27. chris
    September 18, 2015 at 11:23 PM

    Kenny running out of time tonight, but I will get back to you in response to the rest of your post. I will, however, respond to the last paragraph.

    “I’ve yet to come across any scientific validation of your claims. If this is the Chris Fleming that claims to be a medium, then I challenge your claim.”

    Kenny I hope you are not referring to ORB photos, which you and I agreed on in most cases as artifacts. I do not remember our discussions on ITC.

    When it comes to mediumship and ESP, I believe I explained this at a lecture you attended.
    Kenny, I hope you remember at Univ Con you volunteered for an experiment I did in front of a live audience regarding one of the abilities we all have – how to recognize changes in the EMF field. How these deviations, such as sensitives, are able to pick up on. I stated that there are no psychic powers, but it has to do with actual abilities we all have if we become aware of it and know how to not only access it, but pay attention to it. While blindfolded, you validated the experiment by directly grabbing the cell phone that was on silent when it went off. No vibration, no ring. You even stated yourself, “I just knew.” You felt the change and reached out and grabbed exactly where the phone was. How did you sense this?

    We even spoke about it later.

    When it comes to spirits, it is almost the same thing. We feel the presence in the room. We just know. The difference is the energy we feel is not from a phone, but emitting from something else.

    I remember you even shared your personal story of seeing a ghost. I think you said he was wearing a blue coat. I can’t remember the exact specifics.

    Present extraordinary evidence to support your claim. I hear Randi still has that Challenge going…””

    Ahhh, I was hoping someone would get to this. Randi is brilliant, as the honest liar he is. As the illusionist and trickster he has built his life on, he has created the greatest marketing propaganda tool of our time. I commend him on his creation. It made him a lot of money.

    It worked for Houdini and why not work for him.

    The challenge offers no scientific study or value to the scientific community. It is nothing more then an attention getter and publicity stunt. But please, don’t talk my opinion as my response. I suggest you read my extensive response and research into the Million Dollar challenge.

    LINK: http://www.christopherfleming.com/web/million-dollar-challenge-proves-nothing-to-science-only-that-a-challenge-was-met/

    After reading the article please know, I would of course love to be apart of a legitimate scientific research program or experiment, supported by universities and the scientific community who are legitimately looking for real answers regarding life after death and/or communication with the afterlife. I want to prove my claims, just as much as you want to experience it and know for yourself.

    Kenny if you challenge my claim then why not go ghost hunting with me. Watch and experience what I do and make up your own mind.

    I present what evidence I can outside personal experiences, during my lectures. In forms of ITC or live demonstrations.

    The authority I speak on is over 40 years of personal and collective experiences with many people and colleagues all over the US. As well as my contributions to the paranormal community regarding awareness, understanding consciousness, data and use of ITC. I even helped co-create a device and continues work with engineers. If you have a question ask. If you want to see for yourself, join me while I investigate. You know I have always been approachable and open.

    -Chris

  28. September 19, 2015 at 10:30 AM

    Sorry Chris but you’ve just spouted a series of terms without any knowledge at all behind them. “conscious thought from the observer affects the particles.” is just about the most ignorant statement a person could make about the observer effect (not law). Consciousness doesn’t affect a quantum state, its the act of firing photons at it that causes the observer effect! To be observed electrons absorb the photons changing their energy state. No mystery at all.

  29. September 19, 2015 at 1:16 PM

    So, I say that from the info I have this is Chris Fleming responding to the posts here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Fleming

    As I state in the Commenting policy, this is not a forum, it’s not a place for debate (that’s by my choice, there are plenty for forums that serve that purpose).

    I’m not going to turn this into a back and forth about paranormal evidence. But for many reasons, listed as follows, my stance is that there is no good evidence to support subscribing to the ideas of mediums, psychic powers or communication with the dead:

    1. There has been extensive research into claims of life after death, mediumship and hauntings, over a centuries worth. Consult the results from SPR and the various parapsychology labs, mostly now defunct. Yet, we have no stronger evidence for life after death as we did when the research began in the 1800s. Compared to other scientific questions, the progress has been nil.

    2. We have thousands of cases that could be cited of mediums acting in a fraudulent manner. It is illogical and ridiculous to claim that while this medium has been found to be a fraud and the rest of these claimed phenomenon can be reproduced or explained by non-paranormal means, that this particular event or medium is paranormal.

    3. There has never been documented scientific progress made through a paranormal television show for entertainment only. (If I’m wrong, please point that out. Send me an email.)

    4. No quantum physicists are working on the manifestations of their theory as paranormal phenomena.

    5. The current state of parapsychology has moved to more productive anomalistic psychology conducted by qualified PhDs. Not amateurs. Their results are actually proving to be useful in explaining seemingly paranormal occurrences.

    6. Science is the best method we have in explaining nature. If mediums, psychic powers or communication with the dead exist, they are part of nature, thus, amenable to scientific investigation. To continue to accept anecdotes and baseless assertions as well as “scientifical” speculation is pointless and gets exactly nowhere.

    Thus, unless there is some breakthrough, which is possible of course, I’m not going to waste my time believing nonsense. If there’s is some breakthrough, you’ll hear about it here for sure. I’ll be ecstatic. But I’m not holding my breath.

  30. September 19, 2015 at 1:19 PM

    All that rings hollow as evidence for the rest of us. See my associated post. There are solid reasons why science has rejected the paranormal. (They spent considerable time on it and found there was nothing of value there to study.)

  31. September 19, 2015 at 1:28 PM

    Can you give me your scientific credentials? I would not attempt to explain theoretical physics but you seem to bank on it.

    But, the way you are talking about particles and energy is a wonderful example of “being scientifical” – using the images, words and behaviors of scientists without following or understanding the underlying essence or ethos of science. That was the title of my EdM thesis (See here for link to download.)

  32. chris
    September 19, 2015 at 1:30 PM

    Sharon, Thank you for your detailed response. This is exactly what I was looking for and helps me better understand where you are coming from in regards to your opinion and statements. While I have the urge to respond to each one of these, I will respect your guidelines for the website and respect your opinion, based on your views and research into the genre.

    If it is okay with you I would like to in the future address these on my own blog, in a respectful manner. My hope is to understand why, parts of science, or those involved have created the mindset or come to the conclusion that the paranormal, life after death and ghosts do not exist.

    Thank you for your response.

    -Chris

  33. September 19, 2015 at 1:40 PM

    Absolutely.

    Please know that I am ALL FOR investigating claims of the paranormal but I do not accept a conclusion “it’s paranormal” since there is currently no basis for that.

    Also, it’s a GREAT point to try to understand our own individual reasons for why we accept or do not accept some premises and conclusions. We ought to do that more. For everything. However, it takes time, practice and effort; I know I need to work on it more as well.

  34. chris
    September 19, 2015 at 1:48 PM

    I don’t like the term paranormal or supernatural either. I firmly believe it is a term to represent that which we do not fully understand.

    I will read your scientifical thesis as well to better familiarize myself with the mindset of the scientific community.

    Thank you for your time.

    -Chris

  35. Paula
    September 20, 2015 at 9:05 AM

    More FAKE bull!

  36. Angie
    November 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM

    This is typical Q&A BS show. A so called psychic person feels out the grieving survivor or survivors with multiple basic questions fishing for body language & the griever unwittingly giving the answers. I wish these fakes would get tested by several people with no connection to find comfort with a lost loved one. Then & only then will I be convinced of their abilities. Two thumbs down. NEXT!

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